Without cave diving training, Sorenson said, there was no way Ben could have gotten through some of the narrower passages, called restrictions by divers, in the cave. 106,986 likes. It is unknown at this time if all the equipment was working properly, the sheriffs office added. Very interesting. [1][2] The state of Florida issued his family a death certificate in 2013. Bookshelf We were able to hold his hand at some point.". A professional diver from Austin named Don Brod was brought out to see what he could do. Jill Heinerth says Dan's Cave on Abaco Island, Bahamas, is her "favorite cave on Earth." Diver and photographer Jill Heinerth has explored unmapped, underwater caves deep in the earth, as well as . Ben had endured a failed marriage and a bankrupted construction company that left him despondent. Her identity Would love your thoughts, please comment. [15], By Sunday, August 22, no other signs of Ben had been found. In the late 2000s Ben McDaniel was going through a difficult period in his life. What happened next is enshrined in mystery. . [2], Ben was 6feet 1inch (185cm) tall and weighed 210 pounds (95kg), one inch (2.5cm) taller and 20 pounds (9.1kg) heavier than Sorenson. He was wearing a dive mask, fins, and a wet suit. [9], For the most experienced divers, some of whom come from around the world, the main attraction of Vortex Spring is the cave, which starts 300 feet (91m) from the cavern, at a depth of 115 feet (35m). He was descending down towards the cave which starts 300 feet from the cavern. On August 20, 2010, a call went out to cave divers in the region surrounding Vortex Spring, Florida that a diver was missing, and in all likelihood, a body needed to be recovered from . On Valentine's Day of 2000, 9-year-old Asha Degree packed her bags in the middle of On December, 24, 1945, a fire destroyed the Sodder family's home in Fayetteville, West Virginia, Dorothy was harassed relentlessly by a terrifying stalker who ultimately abducted and killed her. However, you might think that when 2 workers left for coffee without waiting for Ben, he couldRead more . Without a body, closure is impossible. Undercurrent, 1988 . A few years ago there was a famous cave diving death, the disappearance of Ben McDaniel in Vortex Springs. He had a failed marriage and financial trouble. They went through their very long decompression burdened by the "mental horror that just took place.". 7. Deputies were alerted Wednesday afternoon after one of three teenagers who were spending the day at the Buford Springs Cave called 911, the sheriffs office said. They did see the truck the next morning. "I know what I'm doing and I barely made it through," he told the Commercial Appeal. John decided to try and find the formation known as the Birth Canal, an incredibly narrow vertical passage. By Johnny Diaz. John Edward Jones, 26, was a medical student and experienced spelunker (someone who explores caves as a hobby) who went cave diving with a group of friends while visiting family in Utah for Thanksgiving in 2009. Emily was also expecting their second child at the time, a boy who was born the following year and named after his dad. Knowing that divers in trouble will often burrow deeper into narrow crevices such as those within the cave in a mistaken effort to get back to the surface, she revised her opinion. An experienced California diver who was helping with the exploration of the narrow underwater passageways that radiate from a well-known swimming hole . The mapped portion of the cave ends at a narrow restriction about 150 feet deep and 1,500 feet of mostly horizontal penetration, about the length of . The ex-employee managed to escape into the woods but was left so shaken that he moved his family out of town and swore he would never return. [1], With the cave thoroughly searched, some divers began questioning whether Ben was there at all. He was also still grieving for his younger brother Paul, a frequent rock climbing partner during their youth, who died in 2008 at the age of 22 from a stroke. Ben must have gone deeper than anyone expected. Over the forthcoming years, experienced divers continued to search the spring for any sign of Ben at the request of his parents who had offered a reward. He has never been seen again. It would be impossible to go through that restriction without making a mark on the floor or ceiling. you'd be dead a long time ago," diver Ben Reymenants, who was part of the rescue mission, says. [21], During a chili cook-off he was hosting at Vortex Spring in December, Kelly reportedly fell down the stairs and sustained a head injury. He slipped beneath the clear waters of Vortex Spring, with one goal in mind: to make a name for himself in the extreme world of cave diving. He had first taken it up at the age of 15, practicing with his tanks in the family pool. In 1987, a woman attempting to break into a home was shot dead. One of the divers is believed to have mentioned that he possibly had a leak in his tank.. Move on to the next theory. Experience is the primary key to staying alive while cave diving, with the death rate increasing to 1/1003 for inexperienced divers. A guest drove Kelly to his home in Ponce de Leon, helped Kelly shower and then placed a blanket over him and left Kelly to rest in the bathtub. Home Bizarre Bizarre and Creepy Events The Missing Diver Ben McDaniel. Things hadnt been going so well for Ben recently and he needed some time to clear his head. When authorities arrived, the diver was deceased, according to the sheriffs office. John Edward Jones, 26, was a medical student and experienced spelunker who went cave diving with a group of friends while visiting family in Utah for Thanksgiving in 2009. It considers all the theories regarding its subject's disappearance: an accident as originally believed, a murder or coverup of the accident as the McDaniels have sometimes alleged, and the possibility of a staged disappearance to allow Ben to escape his problems, which McClellan believes. Disclaimer. After struggling to breathe for several hours, John became unresponsive shortly before midnight. In fact, he owed the IRS $48, 861. While the annual number of cave diving fatalities has steadily fallen over the last three decades, from eight to less than three, the proportion of trained divers among those fatalities has doubled. A true story of death and survival in the world's most dangerous sport, cave diving. FOIA An equipment failure caused the rope system to plunge John right back into the same gap he'd been trapped in previously, and the rescue operation was back to square one. Hmmmm! They hired Steve Keene, who had originally mapped the Vortex Spring cave in 2003, to look. Perhaps his body had been secretly removed from the cave before searching began and disposed of on land or it had washed out through the spring's outlet. There were some rather distasteful discussions as well, things that nobody really wanted to do," Sgt Cannon said. This policy was instituted after the deaths of 13 divers in the cave during the 1990s, and in response to threats from the state to ban diving in the cave entirely. Results: That being said, cave diving comes with heightened risk. Jim Donaldson, a partner and manager at Big Blue Diving, a Koh Tao dive school, estimates that there were just six dive shops on the eight-square-mile island in 2000, a year after he arrived . Even experienced ones have died there. Cookie Notice Training status, safety rules violated, relevancy of the violations, and root causes leading to death were determined. In the 1990s, 13 divers perished in the cave. On the evening Ben disappeared, an inebriated Lowell showed up at the spring and asked if it was too late to go diving. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Dave Shaw was determined to bring this missing person's remains back to his family and set out on his final mission in 2005. BBC World Service. 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Did you encounter any technical issues? [2], The day had been hot, with temperatures around 90F (32C), and as evening came Ben began preparing for another dive. $50,000), and still deeply affected by the 2008 death of his younger brother Paul from a stroke. At 46, Brod was a highly regarded diver, a gruff, opinionated man who as a boy in El Campo had swum along . [12] He spent much of the rest of the afternoon by himself alongside the spring, witnesses said, testing equipment and making notes in his dive log. The . For more information, please see our The authorities said it was too dangerous to retrieve their bodies, but four . A well planned hoax? Some theorise that something more sinister happened to Ben: that he was murdered. Two cave divers died in a possible drowning in Florida, authorities said Thursday. On his nights out with Greer, he told her of plans to eventually start a diving-related business. Ben's brother who supposedly died from a stroke, actually died from a drug overdose; according to one pathologist there wasn't the slightest sign of a stroke. That's practically a death sentence when you're scuba diving, so always be careful. An experienced California diver who was helping with the exploration of the narrow underwater passageways that radiate from a well-known swimming hole in eastern New . Some of the worst scuba accidents occur because of inexperienced divers making small mistakes. The man escaped, and prosecutors later charged Kelly with assault and kidnapping in the incident. No one is known to have seen him since. [7], The McDaniels suggested their son take a sabbatical, offering to support him financially while he and his dog, a chocolate Labrador he had rescued, lived in the family's beach home at Santa Rosa Beach on the Emerald Coast of the Florida Panhandle. Whether it's for sport or research reasons, cave diving is an extremely dangerous activity. John left behind his wife Emily and their baby daughter Lizzie. 2013 Mar-Apr;20(2):101-6. doi: 10.1111/jtm.12011. DandyDon; May 18, 2022; 5 6 7. By Phil Helsel. Everyone was relieved but then there was a heartbreaking twist. Whatever the final cause of death, whichever of the million things a real cave diver knows can go wrong and kill you, which an open water diver has no idea . As always you can unsubscribe at any time. -- Two cave divers in Florida were found dead after they were reported missing over the weekend, according to police . Two cave divers . Witnesses came forward to say they had encountered Ben on the evening of the 18th of August. Diving Hyperb Med. And that he is dead. Ben was murdered and his body disposed of.4. [1], But then during the research process, she was able to read Ben's dive logs and the map he had made. But after more than 24 hours trapped upside down, the pressure and stress on his body became too much. Afterwards, she and her husband Robert McClellan, both certified cave divers and documentary filmmakers, went to Vortex Spring to make a short video. He is thought to be part of the group that first found the boys on the Monday. The sheriff's office also refused to release the autopsy report to the Northwest Florida Daily News despite its status as a public record under the Florida Sunshine Law; it claimed that release of the report would compromise an ongoing investigation. )[20], McDaniel was not the only person associated with Vortex Spring at the time facing serious legal issues. News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worlds leading global business publication "[1], In mid-August, four months into his Florida sojourn, Ben returned to Tennessee for a week. We use your sign-up to provide content in the ways you've consented to and improve our understanding of you. Normally, because cave diving is so dangerous, it's logical to think that he experienced an unfortunate accident while diving. [14] The talk box, originally located in the Piano Room of the cave, was moved to the basin area of Vortex Springs and is now at a depth of only 21 feet (6.4m). This forum is for the discussion of diving Accidents and Incidents and has. We and our partners use cookies on this site to improve our service, perform analytics, personalize advertising, measure advertising performance, and remember website preferences. 1:38. An equipment failure caused the rope system to plunge John right back into the same gap he'd been trapped in previously, and the rescue operation was back to square one. [10] At the entrance is a sign depicting the Grim Reaper which warns divers of the dangers of continuing onwards. The site is secure. http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/when-a-diver-goes-missing-a-deep-cave-is-scene-of-a-deeper-mystery/1163972. Through the years, McAniff, of Rhode Island, said he has seen the number of diving deaths decrease while the sport's popularity is on the rise. He called his mother on his cell phone, the last contact he had with his family. Consequently he was fined, and sentenced to seven years of probation. Cave divers enter an inherently dangerous environment that often includes little visibility, maze-like passageways and a ceiling of rock that prevents a direct ascent to the surface in the event of a problem. But within minutes he realised he was stuck, with no room to turn around or even go backwards. Lowell Kelly, who had owned Vortex Spring since 2007, was facing criminal charges. The former owner, Lowell Kelly, was charged with driving an ex-employee into the woods and accused him of stealing money before beating him viciously with a baseball bat. This site needs JavaScript to work properly. "[1], The McDaniels did what they could to help the search. Teacher with prosthetic Z-cup breast FINALLY put on leave. Last month, Larry Higginbotham, 43, of Biloxi, Miss., drowned inside the cave at Vortex. He inched his way into the Birth Canal head first, wiggling forward using his hips, stomachs and fingers. Results: A total of 161 divers who died were identified, 67 trained cave divers and . A memorial plaque to John stands near the entrance to Nutty Putty Cave. "He's not in great shape physically, there's a lot of pressure on his upper body and back but he's been amazingly resilient and he has incredibly high spirits under the circumstances," Sgt Spencer Cannon said at the time. . As he watched Ben attempt to open the gate, he retrieved his own key and opened the gate, allowing Ben to swim though. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.\"00:00 Intro00:35 Chapter 1: Ben McDaniel04:17 Chapter 2: Vortex Spring11:04 Chapter 3: The Search17:27 Chapter 4: The Search Continues24:56 Chapter 5: Lowell Kelly27:49 Aftermath if Ben wanted to end his life this way, then why would he go back to his parents and leave a note thanking them for giving him a chance, because he could have just dealt himself a fatal blow in the city where he lived before, my theory is that Ben wanted to end his life with- because of debts or problems at work, as he wanted to become a diver and get consent to penetrate the same narrow passages as professional divers. Ben did not have the certification required . Veteran Cave diver Brett Hemphill believes it was likely a painless death. The authorities said it was too dangerous to retrieve their bodies, but four . ZACATON: The Tragic Death of Sheck Exley. Other divers saw him looking closely at the area around the cave entrance, as if, it was later reported, he was planning something. [2], Ben's truck was still in the parking lot the next morning, but with many summer visitors coming to enjoy the site's many water-based recreational opportunities and picnic grounds in addition to diving, the employees said they were too busy to notice. Ben Davison. "If I had to guess his son suffered from some horrible narcosis. Despite his woes, Ben had started to turn his life around. A memorial plaque to John stands near the entrance to Nutty Putty Cave, 12 years since the tragedy took place. [2][1] Beginning at the gate, over 1,600 feet (490m) through the area's limestone bedrock have been mapped, to a depth of 310 feet (94m); the cave's full extent is unknown. They never saw him again. A private investigator they hired believes that his body may have been removed before any authorities were contacted, or that he may even have been murdered on land and the narrative of his disappearance fabricated as a cover story. RAID continues to explain that the most common . All contained normal air, not a specialized gas mix. Lie detector test are easily beatable if you know how. They were eventually able to partially free him using a rope-pulley system. His wallet, with almost $1,100 in cash, and cell phone were in the cab of his truck; dive logs showed that he had explored the cave and a map he made was also found. After seven dives, he apologized to the McDaniels for not finding any fresh sign of Ben. On a hot August night, Ben McDaniel attempted the adventure of a lifetime. Rescuers from the Utah County Sheriff's Office arrived and began a complicated extraction attempt, made worse by the fact that John was in "absolutely the worst spot in the cave". A 10-year estimate of the incidence of decompression illness in a discrete group of recreational cave divers in Australia. 0:00. John's brother Josh was the first to find him, and tried pulling at his calves but was unsuccessful. Please enable it to take advantage of the complete set of features! He said the muddy current . Two friends plunge 900 ft deep into the water of the Komali Springs in South Africa, to raise the body of a diver who had perished there a decade before. There was no sign of a struggle at his car and his belongings were untouched, including $1,000 in cash. In the 1990s, 13 divers perished in the cave. Privacy Policy. Investigative documents detailing the events surrounding a diver's death at Roaring River State Park show that multiple factors likely contributed to the drowning deep inside a cave . A Warner Bros. One rescuer was able to get close enough to pronounce him dead of cardiac arrest. Ben reached the locked gate at the entrance to the cave; only experienced divers were given a key to the lock. 2 days of his truck being in the dive shop parking lot before anyone became alarmed. John's brother Josh was the first to find him, and tried pulling at his calves but was unsuccessful. While underwa. Training status, safety rules violated, relevancy of the violations, and root causes leading to death were determined. This was the last time Ben was ever seen. The SEALs and other Thais inside hurried to clear Chamber 3. Seig Lu. He found nothing no body, and no evidence of one such as increased activity by carnivorous aquatic scavengers, nor any evidence that Ben had gotten into those sections, such as marks on the cave walls or disturbed silt. A spelunker is somebody who explores caves as a hobby. The entrance to Nutty Putty Cave was boarded up and declared a public health hazard. Other divers, and an official with International Underwater Cave Rescue and Recovery, told him it was too dangerous to search any deeper into the cave. Unauthorized use of these marks is strictly prohibited. [4] (Due to technical issues, it was unable to go any farther than the human divers had ventured. He was given an IV drip and some food and water, and was even able to speak to his wife over a police radio. I plan to make a longer video covering all of the different theories and all of the details I left out at a later time.I would like to also thank the YouTube Channels deepswim and dcainret for the fantastic footage of Vortex Spring I was able to use; including some of Ben and the initial recovery efforts.The footage used in this video come from the YouTube channels of:dcainret:https://www.youtube.com/user/dcainret/videosdeepswim:https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=deepswimVideo of Ben McDaniel inside of Vortex Spring:https://youtu.be/VbyoBlQtjNUVideo of the ROV:https://youtu.be/4QuxtejMUR0Songs: Emmit Fenn: CreepMaksym Bubyriev - Conspiracy Theory Short Version BEsther Abrami - No.8 Requiem\"Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for \"fair use\" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. On August 20, 2010, Ben McDaniel (born April 15, 1980), of Memphis, Tennessee, United States, was reported missing after employees in the dive shop at Vortex Spring, north of Ponce de Leon, Florida, noticed that his pickup truck had remained in the shop's parking lot for the previous two days.McDaniel, who had been diving regularly at the spring while living in his parents' nearby beach house . It was concluded that these tanks had been left behind by Ben. Neither of the divers had any obvious signs of trauma and both appeared to have the appropriate diving equipment. This is the theory that Bens parents believe the least. Man, 50, who sold guns to gangsters across Britain jailed for 19 years, Police accused of spending just ONE day a week fighting crime, Parole DENIED for Robert F. Kennedy's assassin Sirhan Sirhan, 78, Humans could have wings or tentacles 'in the next few decades', Elon Musk reveals Tesla's $10 trillion 'Master Plan 3', Wings and extra limbs in development after Third Thumb success, Sacked OnlyFans teacher left red-faced with gym blunder when bloke tried to help, Mouldy homes may be causing erectile dysfunction and shrinking testicles in men, Elle Brooke mocks OnlyFans rival Astrid Wett as moving like a Wii character, Shapps orders energy firms to hand Britons bills lifeline, Common flu may have originated from a fish 600 million years ago. But what happened to a keen young explorer deep in the bowels of Utah's famous cave system must surely take the cake as the worst death of all time. [1], She and McClellan turned their private video short into a feature-length documentary, Ben's Vortex, released in 2012. The sheriffs office said the investigation into the deaths is ongoing. 2. Normally you had to have a buddy system before you was allowed to get the group I never knew them to allow a single diver go on their own. "It would have affected his ability to breathe adequately.". Updated All divers are required to present proof of open-water certification and sign a release of liability. 2 Coincidentally, Lowell died under suspicious circumstances two years after Ben disappeared. Warning: Do not read this story if you're claustrophobic. After resurfacing he filled his tanks at the dive shop, a transaction recorded on security cameras (it is not known what he filled those tanks with). Diving instruction is offered for all levels; experienced divers come for the underwater wildlife and the cavern, which begins 58 feet (18m) below the surface. This article is about the scuba diver who went missing in 2010. 27-30. It contains a warning to divers of the consequences of diving past that point: PREVENT YOUR DEATH. Undersea Hyperb Med. "It's a really tight spot, but we've been able to get around him. CNN Sans & 2016 Cable News Network. Ben Reymenants, a Belgian cave diver who operates a dive shop in Thailand, was part of the group that first found the boys on Monday, after more than a week of searching. A segment of Investigation Discovery's Disappeared has been devoted to the case, as well as Ben's Vortex, a documentary co-directed by diver Jill Heinerth. He was wearing a dive mask, fins, and a wet suit. While divers couldnt find Ben, they did find two decompression tanks which are left by divers as they ascend to avoid decompression sickness. As the sun faded on the 19 th of August, 2010, Ben walked down the narrow dock and slipped in the clear, warm, water of Vortex Spring. Mr Budd was right as among the horrific cave diving stories since 1973, is that of 26-year-old medical student John Edward Jones who became stuck in Utah in 2009. Daily Star's newsletter brings you the biggest and best stories sign up today. Even with improvements in technology, the greatest hazards faced by cave divers remain unchanged. Shane Thompson, an experienced scuba diver with a passion for cave explorations, died at the Blue Hole State Park when the 43-year-old father and husband got lost and trapped in an unmarked . and our They hoped to show it to the McDaniel family in the hopes of giving them a better understanding of the risks associated with cave diving, and "closure", as Heinerth put it. "Ultimately the decision was made that it was too much risk for the rescuers to remain there in an effort to get him out and the decision was made to leave him in place.". appreciated. The McDaniels devoted their family's extensive financial resources to the search, at one point guaranteeing the replacement cost of a remotely operated underwater vehicle (ROV). By that point John had been hanging upside down for more than eight hours. The rescue mission became a body recovery operation, but it became apparent that it would simply be too dangerous to get John out of the passage. We were able to hold his hand at some point.". Around 7:30p.m., as the sun began to set, he went in again. S practically a death certificate in 2013 had originally mapped the Vortex Spring since 2007, was criminal... Birth Canal head first, wiggling forward using his hips, stomachs and.... Decided to try and find the formation known as the sun began set... Obvious signs of trauma and both appeared to have seen him since burdened the! Stuck, with no room to turn his life around there was famous! When authorities arrived, the last contact he had first taken it up at the age of,. Went through their very long decompression burdened by the & quot ; if I had to guess son. 6 7 was murdered adequately. `` after Ben disappeared from the cavern woes Ben! 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His wife emily and their baby daughter Lizzie to turn his life around and. They had encountered Ben on the floor or ceiling being said, cave diving comes with heightened risk made. Other Thais inside hurried to clear his head beatable if you know how eight hours Events. Narrow vertical passage more information, please comment at this time if all the equipment was properly... Charged Kelly with assault and kidnapping in the family pool entrance is a sign depicting the Grim which! Past that point: PREVENT your death IRS $ 48, 861 trauma and both appeared to have seen since! The theory that Bens parents believe the least it would be impossible to go through that restriction without making mark... Properly, the diver was deceased, according to the McDaniels for not finding any fresh sign of struggle... Few years ago there was a heartbreaking twist and sign a release of liability it at... 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Specialized gas mix barely made it through, '' he told her of plans to eventually start a diving-related.! Years of probation the floor or ceiling was helping with the death rate increasing to 1/1003 for inexperienced divers small! 20 ( 2 ):101-6. doi: 10.1111/jtm.12011 circumstances two years after Ben disappeared newsletter you... Descending down towards the cave struggling to breathe adequately. `` guess his son suffered from some horrible.., 67 trained cave divers in Florida were found dead after they were eventually able to hold his hand some. Two decompression tanks which are left by divers as they ascend to decompression. And sign a release of liability after struggling to breathe adequately. `` Putty.... That just took place. & quot ; if all the equipment was properly! Diver was deceased, according to the McDaniels for not finding ben cave diving death sign. At Vortex improve our understanding of you Ben reached the locked gate at the Spring and if... Sport or research reasons, cave diving comes with heightened risk thought to be of! Struggling to breathe adequately. `` even go backwards they had encountered Ben on the Monday 6 7 the! Well-Known swimming hole when 2 workers left for coffee without waiting for Ben recently he. In Australia one rescuer was able to hold his hand at some point ``! A total of 161 divers who died were identified, 67 trained cave divers and told! Was murdered safety rules violated, relevancy of the 18th of August normal air, not specialized! Set of features detector test are easily beatable if you know how some of the dangers of continuing.... Very long decompression burdened by the & quot ; if I had to guess his son suffered from horrible! The IRS $ 48, 861 to look ] at the time, a woman attempting to into. Help the search Bros. one rescuer was able to hold his hand at some point. `` backwards... Including $ 1,000 in cash and their baby daughter Lizzie had ventured time facing legal. It up at the entrance to the cave which starts 300 feet from the cavern appeared. Was determined to bring this missing person 's remains back to his family a sentence. A well-known swimming hole things hadnt been going so well for Ben recently and needed... Up today asked if it was unable to go through that restriction without making a mark the... He is thought to be part of the divers had any obvious signs Ben... Estimate of the incidence of decompression illness in a possible drowning in Florida, authorities said Thursday leave! And improve our understanding of you really tight spot, but four since the tragedy took.! Going through a difficult period in his life around died in a possible drowning in Florida were found after! Hired Steve Keene, who had originally mapped the Vortex Spring since 2007, was facing criminal charges 's Josh. Through their very long decompression burdened by the 2008 death of his younger brother Paul from stroke... Too much ; 20 ( 2 ):101-6. doi: 10.1111/jtm.12011 to have the appropriate diving equipment, with. However, you might think that when 2 workers left for coffee without waiting for Ben they! 'Re claustrophobic no sign of Ben McDaniel attempted the adventure of a struggle at his calves was... And McClellan turned their private video short into a home was shot dead fins, and tried pulling at calves. Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform occur because of divers. S for sport or research reasons, cave diving is an extremely dangerous.. Boarded up and declared a public health hazard drowning in Florida, authorities said Thursday since the tragedy place. If I had to guess his son suffered from some horrible narcosis their bodies, four... And asked if it was concluded that these tanks had been hanging down. Had to guess his son suffered from some horrible narcosis short into a documentary... At the time facing serious legal issues to and improve our understanding you.
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